winchester model 12 simmons riblolo soetoro and halliburton

3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 I was in Jr college then. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. Thanks for the reference. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. Bluing is in overall very good condition. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. JavaScript is disabled. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. Market hunting was legislated out of existence in the late teens. Manufactured in 1962. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. Has 30" barrel choked Full. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Great communications. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. It was an immediate success. Stay in the know. He spent many years as firearms editor for Outdoor Life and later Field and Stream, as well as shotgun editor for the American Rifleman. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. MAKE OFFER. Item . Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. I am planning on shooting it at the Grand Nostalgia shoot. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. Free shipping for many products! Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. Most websites are poorly Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. The locked breech bolts of both guns have little perceptible play when the rear of the bolt is pressed from the side. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your Model 12 was offered in several different styles: 1. No Reserve . See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! Something went wrong. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. The marsh is in riot! All Model 12 shotguns have an action slide lock that keeps the action closed and locked in the event of a misfire or hang-fire. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. Everything functions as it should. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Both guns averaged 80% or better patterns with all loads of #4 shot. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. The steel has a nice patina and the stock has most of the lacquer worn off. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! The first was helping the gunsmiths. And our Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. I have several 2-pin guns. Regards Chuck. L.O.P. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. We'rebringing a level of Very good condition overall. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. Every cowboy needs a revolver. . Manufactured in 1959. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. Pictures are of the item listed. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. At Guns.com, if an FFL is Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. Pandemonium! The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 5d 15h 14m For specifics on Copyright Law and the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. The stock has a hard-rubber plate and a real, full pistol grip carved close to the guard. The duck gun sent to the American Rifleman staff in 1935 would not unlock during recoil. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Manufactured in 1959. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. The point is the model 12 evolved. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. Such were the men of the long-range duck-hunting cult. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. Shooting the Model 12 Duck Gun I own two Model 12 duck guns. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. I believe the blueing to be original. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. It was manufactured in 1962 and is a skeet grade. The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibAuction Date: February 17, 2023. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. Learn how your comment data is processed. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. Action works perfectly. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. He worked with another Winchester researcher. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. the store. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? This gives a wrinkled appearance on bottom of pistol grip and bottom of forend. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. But for some reason, buying a gun online can The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. The deeply blued barrel and receiver frame are very good. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? And for this reason the spike in prices for the forty two will go back down becouse there is a alternative that is for sure and safe and they know all the things that people look for to see if it came from the winchester factory. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Modified choke. Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952.

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